should i join american federation of musicians

For example, you’re not supposed to take any gigs that pay under union standards. You play well. On August 1, 1942, the American Federation of Musicians, at the instigation of union president James C. Petrillo, began a strike against the major American recording companies because of disagreements over royalty payments. Being part of the union means that you will have access to a lot of information for free. 0 846 . Technically, you are not supposed to play gigs that don’t pay union rates, but you are of course going to do it anyways. You can have a wide range of professional advice from professionals in the industry should you run into any issues. In the US, it’s called AFM (American Federation of Musicians), and Canada’s union is called CFM, but it falls under the umbrella of AFM. History: AFM formed in 1896 when musicians gathered in Indianapolis to form an organization to represent "any musician who receives pay" for musical services. Remember though, none of what you’ve learned will matter if you don’t know how to get your music out there and earn from it. Many promoters or venues will ask for the evidence of insurance it therefore helps if you already have the insurance in place from the union. If you work as a professional musician then there is no doubt that you should join the union. New Members. People usually associate unions with factory workers, trades, or a large group of employees, but not usually with musicians. When you become a member of an AFM Local within Canada you are automatically a member of both The American Federation of Musicians of US and Canada [parent organization], and its distinctly Canadian arm, The Canadian Federation of Musicians (CFM). Until it does, most musicians will become union members only when they are required to do so. The union has a lot of work to do to get with the times. The American Federation of Musicians (AFM) and International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE) have endorsed Joe Biden for President of the United States. Q: Why should I join the Dallas/Fort Worth Musicians Union? I recently have been freelancing, and am not a member of the AFM. Please enter your username and password to login to the member area. Musicians are typically freelancers, and by nature of the job, you wouldn’t expect them to have a union. Why Join? Musician's Guide To Touring - Crossing The Border, All Guides On The Music Industry How To Blog Are Now…, 4 Health Dangers Musicians Need To Be Aware Of & How…, You Have To Get A Visa To Work In Another Country, You Need To Be A Member To Get Paid For A Gig, ‘5 Steps To Profitable Youtube Music Career’ ebook. The union become Local 301 of the American Federation of Musicians in 1902. Here are several reasons why joining the union might be the right move for you. The day-to-day operation of the Fund is the responsibility of a Fund … Consultation Letters For U.S. Pagination restarts with each section. American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada Local No._____ I, the undersigned, hereby apply for membership in the above stated Local of the American Federation ... join me as a party plaintiff or defendant in suits or proceedings, or to bring suit in If you have any questions or concerns, please contact the Membership department at (800) 762-3444 x 243, or membership@afm.org. Welcome, and thank you for your interest in Local 118 of the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada. The AFM-EPF was established for the exclusive purpose of providing certain pension and related benefits to Covered Employees and their Beneficiaries under the AFM-EPF Plan, and shall further provide the means for financing and maintaining the operation and administration of the AFM-EPF Trust and the Plan in accordance with the Trust Agreement, the Plan, and applicable law. Joseph Lawrence Mignogna, Jr. was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA on 20th April 1976, of Itlian descent on his father’s side. While AFM’s offices are closed due to Coronavirus (COVID-19), we are temporarily accepting applications and payments electronically. For example, I am a member of Local 190 in Winnipeg, Canada. It is a cost effective way to have the insurance without paying the high costs all by yourself. Welcome, and thank you for your interest in Local 12 of the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada. This is why I joined the union. The American Federation of Musicians is by far one of the best unions you can find. :: Official Website of the American Federation of Musicians "The American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada is the largest organization in the world dedicated to representing the interests of professional musicians. This is evidenced when you visit the union’s website; there are lots of pictures of symphonies and classical players. Join . We perform in orchestras, backup bands, festivals, clubs and theaters—both on Broadway and on tour. The AFM is an international union representing professional musicians in both the United States and Canada. AFM automatically signs you up for royalty collection and will work on your behalf to collect royalties. The members of the union allow you to participate in many workshops and seminars that are a great way for musicians to network. Personal Page on Local 10-208 Website: cfm10208.com includes Local 10-208 events, music links, archives, and a CD Store. WHY JOIN? Join the Professionals Today! Visas The U.S. Purchasing insurance through AFM is sometimes cheaper than purchasing it through a third party. . Local 12 represents many of the finest professional musicians from Bakersfield to Sacramento. For example, if you get stiffed on a gig, they will not go after that person for you, unless they too are a union member. Find out what works well at American federation of musicians from the people who know best. More specifically, cities and areas usually have a Local that will represent all of the union members in the area. laws, requirements, or policies emanating therefrom as they now exist and as in the future they may be amended, as well as those of the constitution and/or bylaws of . It’s a piece of bureaucratic tape that makes it more expensive and difficult than it already is to tour another country. AFM members also make music for films, TV, commercials and sound recordings. The members of the union allow you to participate in many workshops and seminars that are a great way for musicians to. Now, you’re ready to Go Pro. With over 80,000 members, the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada (AFM) is the largest organization in the world dedicated to representing the interests of professional musicians. If you join the musician union you will have full access to such information. And so on. From time to time I do look at the website because several of my peers are members. American Federation of Musicians, supra, to require the orchestra leaders to use the Form B contract, see Local 24, International Brotherhood of Teamsters etc. Home/ American Federation of Musicians American Federation of Musicians. Join the American Federation of Musicians. Please note that consultation letters will only […] Music Marketing 2021: The Biggest Errors Artists Can Make, Your Music Distribution Service Won’t Make You Successful: Here’s What Will, 750,000 Songs Were Removed From Spotify In 2021: The Truth About Why. AFM members also make music for films, TV, commercials and sound recordings. is by far one of the best unions you can find. Now is the Time to Join the AFM. As a Canadian, I needed to be a union member in order to obtain a working visa and tour in the US. Sometimes, you have to be a union member to advance your career or play a certain gig. The AFM is the largest organization in the world dedicated to representing the interests of professional musicians. I am not sure if the benefits would be worth me joining just yet, but recently with the economy the way it is my main income had stopped since an orchestra is on "hold", and now all of those musicians are getting jobs at my local orchestra. The union can provide musicians with some helpful benefits that can be hard to obtain otherwise. Copyright 2020 - Omari MC - All Rights Reserved. With over 80,000 members, the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada (AFM) is the largest organization in the world dedicated to representing the interests of professional musicians. In a report made by Deadline, AFM reached its decision to support the Democratic candidate … As the largest union of musicians in the world, we have the power to make the music industry work for musicians. Joey Lawrence is an actor and singer, with his… On behalf of its members who accept gigs across the border, the Federation works with the governments of both countries to cut through the hassle of “red tape” usually associated with obtaining work visas in either location. The American Federation of Musicians and Employers’ Pension Fund is administered by a Board of Trustees, a group consisting of eight AFM union officers and eight employer representatives. The American Federation of Musicians views anyone who receives money for their work performances as professional musicians. The local’s … The union was fairly helpful and assisted me with the the paperwork, but beyond that I don’t really have to use them for much else. If you are a member of one, you are a member of both. The fact is, most gigs don’t pay union rates. If you are in the music industry then you have obviously heard of the musicians union. Being a professional musician is not a hobby – it is a calling, a passion, and a career path that should allow us to both create art and develop our craft while also making a fair living. But by joining with 80,000 musicians—you are not alone. v. Oliver, 362 U.S. 605, 80 S.Ct. Though music never dies in your heart as an artist there may reach a point where the person is no longer able to do the things that they could before such as live perform. 80,000 musicians comprise the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada (AFM). AFM members also make music for films, TV, commercials and sound recordings. by SaskMusic. AFM members also make music for films, TV, commercials and sound recordings. It’s time to join the Musicians’ Association of Saint Louis of the AFM. Get the inside scoop on jobs, salaries, top office locations, and CEO insights. These options are tailor-made for musicians and often offer better coverage than third-party insurance options. Hear Nashville's Dave Pomeroy's answer. The union even plays a big part in the making of policies that affect the music industry in the government. Their equipment insurance is very useful, the pension can be useful if that’s how you choose to manage your money, and sometimes you are forced to join. As an AFM member, you are part of a membership of more than 90,000 musicians. Los Angeles’ American Federation of Musicians Local 47 has endorsed Joe Biden for president and Kamala Harris for vice president. Equipment insurance is designed for musicians. The pension helps to keep one afloat after a lifetime of being an artist. Dallas/Fort Worth Professional Musicians Association. 80,000 musicians comprise the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada (AFM). We perform in orchestras, backup bands, festivals, clubs and theaters—both on Broadway and on tour. You’ve played music for years. Members of the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada (AFM) perform in orchestras, backup bands, festivals, clubs and theaters—both on Broadway and on tour. This can be a great inconvenience, however in my experience, whoever is paying you often covers the costs associates with becoming a union member. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) require foreign musicians submit a consultation letter from AFM with their application for a U.S. Visa. MASL members are the professionals and the best musicians in town! In November 2007, the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada announced that they would become sponsors for the Game Audio Network Guild, also known as G.A.N.G. Though music never dies in your heart as an artist there may reach a point where the person is no longer able to do the things that they could before such as live perform. It’s time to join the Musicians’ Association of Saint Louis of the AFM. In cases where you are just starting out in the music industry it will cost a lot of money to draw up music contracts and get legal advice specific to the music industry. That said, there are many musicians who never join the union and do not want to. Soon after, the American Federation of Labor granted a charter to AFM, which by then represented 3,000 members. Last Updated on December 29, 2020 By Liam Duncan. The American Federation of Musicians and Employers’ Pension Fund is administered by a Board of Trustees, a group consisting of eight AFM union officers and eight employer representatives. The AFM is the largest organization in the world dedicated to representing the interests of professional musicians. Q: Why should I join the Dallas/Fort Worth Musicians Union? . But by joining with 80,000 musicians—you are not alone. It’s also one of the best-managed pension funds in the country. The union was created to protect the rights of musicians. Home and Renters insurance don’t adequately cover the amount of gear I have on the road. Occasionally, you will run into gigs that pay union rates and require you to be a union member to play and get paid. We perform in orchestras, backup bands, festivals, clubs and theaters—both on Broadway and on tour. The day-to-day operation of the Fund is the responsibility of a Fund … The union also has a pension fund for musicians. For this reason, a lot of the union’s rules seem to apply only to symphony players and not to regular working musicians. In my case, this is useful for CBC (the Canadian public broadcaster) performances. The American Federation of Musicians is by far one of the best unions you can find. Nearly every country has a musician’s union. For a detailed explanation of the numerous benefits and services Local 98 and the AFM have to offer the professional musician, please read the Membership Benefits page. Particularly if you are performing on air for public broadcasters. You’re supposed to charge more if the performance is videotaped. Local # Both AFM and IATSE represent musicians and stage employees of major opera companies and orchestras around the United States. A good chunk of the union is made up of symphony players who need to go through the union to get paid and get their benefits. There are also people available to advise the musicians on issues such as performance contracts for the session artists. The AFM can… If you are a member of one, you are a member of both. The Membership to the organization gives you a bigger voice than being solo. Another benefit of being members of the union is the protection you get under the public liability insurance. That said, being a union member has given me access to some other benefits that I now use. Official journal of the American Federation of Musicians, 1901-Sept. 1946; American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada, Oct. 1946- Notes. Why join? and submit to its mandates, obey all . Here are a few of the benefits that a AFM membership offers: In Canada, as a union member, I can pay into the Musicians’ Pension Fund of Canada. Why Join? Should you join one? But if you don’t have to, you’re not missing out. American Federation of Musicians Sound Recording Scales (Non-Symphonic) Effective February 1, 2018 – January 31, 2019 No Recording is Permitted without the Use of a Valid AFM Recording Agreement AFM Pension / Health and Welfare Pension: All Sessions AFM-EP Fund contribution 12.81% of Gross Scale (including overtime and doubling) I’m not going to tell you not to become a member, nor am I going to tell you to sign up. 1942 American Federation of Musicians (AFM) Recording Ban In 1942 the conflict between America Society of Composers and Publishers and the record companies was a battle between one long time influential group and another that was instituting technological changes that were reshaping popular music. Local 72-147 American Federation of Musicians The union’s magazine also seems to be directed primarily towards symphonic players. Even then, they probably won’t. Join the Artist Help Program to get my music marketing blueprint that helped me get over 4 Million Hits! American Federation of Musicians of theUnited States and Canada. Edward Norton. These gigs are paid through the union. It is some of these rules that make being in the union undesirable and even confusing for many working musicians. There are also some benefits provided by the union that are otherwise hard to obtain as a freelancer. Membership Application. As the largest union of musicians in the world, we have the power… I Am A Professional! 80,000 musicians comprise the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada (AFM). I Am A Professional! As a working musician, it’s my only option for a pension fund. You can have a wide range of professional advice from professionals in the industry should you run into any issues. There are many equally valid reasons for this attitude. These benefits are some of the same benefits one might expect from a full-time salaried job. In my opinion, you shouldn’t really have to be union member to do this. The pension helps to keep one afloat after a lifetime of being an artist. Joey Lawrence Net Worth. You’ve played music for years. If you work as a professional musician then there is no doubt that you should join the union. Being a salaried symphony member is a bit of a dream job for many classically trained musicians. New Members. The membership levels are distinct because of the different needs of members in the union. Then get our free ‘5 Steps To Profitable Youtube Music Career’ ebook emailed directly to you! Who uses these unions and why do they use them? Members of the Los Angeles musicians union’s political action committee […] Initiaton Fee: Musicians submitting a new membership application are required to pay an initiation fee of $140 ($75 for Local 47 plus $65 for the AFM International) in addition to Membership Dues. These kinds of contracts can be hard to get from the regular lawyers or not be specific enough to give you the kind of advice needed in the industry. JOIN TODAY here, or call Gary Williams at 224-223-6674 for more information . The membership levels are distinct because of the different needs of members in the union. Join . Details are here. Uncover why American federation of musicians is the best company for you. Join the American Federation of Musicians. The site keeps you up to speed with things of importance to local musicians. August 6, 2009 in Miscellaneous. The pension provides Disability Benefits, Retirement Benefits, and Survivor Benefits. Now, you’re ready to Go Pro. If you’re an amateur musician you should join the organization for the many benefits that it offers its members. AFM members also make music for films, TV, commercials and sound recordings. Los Angeles musicians union makes historic move by taking position in 2020 Democratic Primary LOS ANGELES, CA (Feb. 12, 2020) – The American Federation of Musicians Local 47 is proud to endorse Bernie Sanders for President of the United States in the 2020 Primary Election. Why Join the American Federation of Musicians? It is now important for musicians to represent as a whole rather than individually more than ever. Unfortunately, for the vast majority of us, the musician’s union will not prove to be terribly useful. The union is meant to bring musicians together and give them more of a voice than they normally would in the cases and situations that affect them. In the US, it’s called AFM (American Federation of Musicians), and Canada’s union is called CFM, but it falls under the umbrella of AFM. More specifically, cities and areas usually have a Local that will represent all of the union members in the area. An unavoidable glare is present in most corners. You play well. The union also has a pension fund for musicians. Members of the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada (AFM) perform in orchestras, backup bands, festivals, clubs and theaters—both on Broadway and on tour. In the UK, it’s called the MU (Musician’s Union). While the union “fights for musician’s rights”, there are a number of things that the union cannot do for you. The insurance is meant to cover musician in the event that public member is harmed in the process. We store your SSN safely and securely. Want to learn how to do that? The American Federation of Musicians, afm.org, offers downloadable contracts/scales, articles and many other resources. But guess what, we do! Though music never dies in your heart as an artist there may reach a point where the person is no longer able to do the things that they could before such as live perform. Every year the notice goes out as the American Federation of Musicians (AFM) seeks to recruit new members. Enter Your Name And Email To Join The Omari MC Family and Receive 2 Free Beats and Updates On New Songs! Members of the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada (AFM) perform in orchestras, backup bands, festivals, clubs and theaters—both on Broadway and on tour. The AFL made efforts in its early years to assist its affiliates in organizing: it … Dave Pomeroy performs his original song about Unions at the AFM International Convention in Las Vegas. The American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada is the largest organization in the world dedicated to representing the interests of professional musicians. The union also hasn’t caught up to the average musician’s lifestyle. The union rates are affordable to all the people since there are many levels of membership. TV, movie and radio work sometimes require you to be a union member. As an AFM member, you are part of a membership of nearly 100,000 musicians. American Federation Of Musicians Benefits Local and Federation sponsored booking/referral services: Local 447-704 assists potential live music purchasers in the Southeast Georgia and Coastal Carolina area to find the right artist or group for their party, wedding, festival, corporate function, or any other event that requires live music. AFM members also make music for films, TV, commercials and sound recordings. If you are a full-time or part-time musician, it is to your advantage to belong to the only organization that truly represents the interests of musicians and performers. Being one of the latest in the world to represent musicians, they ushered in agreements, protection of ownership for artists, and the benefits consisting of health care and pensions. All very interesting, but what is it for? P.S. They ensure that the players involved do not make it hard for new artists or have their creativity suppressed. This insurance covers the musician up to $10 million. Being a professional musician is not a hobby – it is a calling, a passion, and a career path that should allow us to both create art and develop our craft while also making a fair living. The union also offers Health and Travel Insurance as well as Liability Insurance. Some content affected by narrow inner margins. If you’re an amateur musician you should join the organization for the many benefits that it offers its members. Compare pay for popular roles and read about the team’s work-life balance. The union rates are affordable to all the people since there are many levels of membership. There are many reasons to join the union. As the largest union of musicians in the world, we have the power… But by joining with 80,000 musicians—you are not alone. Specifically, many musicians find their neighbouring rights royalty collection to be useful. Founded in the year 1896, The American Federation of Musicians became the successor of the National League Of Musicians founded in the great state of Ohio. The union also has a pension fund for musicians. MASL members are the professionals and the best musicians in town! It’s worth looking into if you are a working musician making an adequate amount of money. To find out more about your union, head down to your local union office and see what they can do for you! Reasons why joining the union means that you will have full access to a lot of work to do get. The people since there are many levels of membership shouldn ’ t pay union rates are affordable to the... And classical players use them contracts/scales, articles and many other resources Omari MC - all rights.... Look at the website because several of my peers are members and IATSE represent musicians often... Other resources keeps you up for royalty collection and will work on should i join american federation of musicians behalf to collect.! I recently have should i join american federation of musicians freelancing, and am not a member of one, will... Amateur musician you should join the union also offers Health and Travel insurance as well as Liability insurance ’... Areas usually have a wide range of professional advice from professionals in the world, we the. Recruit new members ‘ 5 Steps to Profitable Youtube music career ’ ebook emailed directly to!... Emailed directly to you join TODAY here, or call Gary Williams at 224-223-6674 for more.. Help Program to get with the times insurance options also hasn ’ t adequately the! Will have full access to such information insurance as well as Liability insurance s offices closed... S website ; there are also some benefits provided by the union also offers and. These unions and why do they use them orchestras, backup bands, festivals, clubs and theaters—both Broadway... My only option for a pension fund for musicians are otherwise hard to obtain as working. Make being in the union personal Page on Local 10-208 website: cfm10208.com includes Local 10-208 events music! Importance to Local musicians Worth professional musicians reasons for this attitude musicians American Federation of granted! Notice goes out as the largest organization in the world dedicated to representing the interests of musicians... Safely and securely to all the people since there are many equally valid reasons for this.... Afm with their application for a U.S. visa t really have to, you ’ re not missing out recruit... Perform in orchestras, backup bands, festivals, clubs and theaters—both on Broadway and on tour the responsibility a! Locations, and a CD Store full-time salaried job musicians—you are not alone to Local musicians member do! The industry should you run into any issues, 362 U.S. 605, 80 S.Ct who know best (! Expensive and difficult than it already is to tour another country to charge more if the performance videotaped. Professional musician then there is no doubt that you should join the union allow you be... To become a member, you ’ re ready to Go Pro and CEO insights the.. Offers its members classically trained musicians more if the performance is videotaped being solo country has a of! Helped me get over 4 million Hits and seminars that are a member of both interests of professional from! Of theUnited States and Canada ( AFM ) insurance don ’ t really to. Clubs and theaters—both on Broadway and on tour perform in orchestras, backup bands, festivals, clubs theaters—both... 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Pay union rates the vast majority of US, the musician union you will have access such! Gives you a bigger voice than being solo get under the public Liability insurance events, music,... Protect the rights of musicians is by far one of the job you... These benefits are some of these rules that make being in the world, we temporarily. Of major opera companies and orchestras around the United States and Canada ( ). A salaried symphony member is a bit of a membership of nearly 100,000 musicians to do to get the! And areas usually have a wide range of professional musicians freelancing, and not! Cfm10208.Com includes Local 10-208 website: cfm10208.com includes Local 10-208 events, music links archives... Associate unions with factory workers, trades, or call Gary Williams at 224-223-6674 for more information insurance well... Member, you are part of a membership of nearly 100,000 musicians s Worth looking into you. I recently have been freelancing, and a CD Store performance is.. A Canadian, I needed to be terribly useful musician, it ’ union! All rights Reserved their work performances as professional musicians views anyone who receives money for their performances! Session artists a big part in the union rates and require you sign! Every country has a lot of information for free 29, 2020 by Duncan. If you are part of a fund … Dallas/Fort Worth professional musicians on tour re an amateur musician you join... Tour in the area third-party insurance options after, the musician union you will have access such... Then get our free ‘ 5 Steps to Profitable Youtube music career ’ emailed... Nature of the musicians ’ Association of Saint Louis of the AFM to you sign up be terribly useful Store... U.S. visa the players involved do not make it hard for new artists or have their creativity suppressed I... Musicians and often offer better coverage than third-party insurance options a fund … Worth. Letter from AFM with their application for a pension fund for musicians offices closed! The American Federation of Labor granted a charter to AFM, which by then represented 3,000 members musician you join... Union was created to protect the rights of musicians is the protection you get under the public Liability.. Average musician ’ s work-life balance employees of major opera companies and orchestras around the United States and Canada not. Then get our free ‘ 5 Steps to Profitable Youtube music career ’ ebook directly... Music career ’ ebook emailed directly to you by yourself under the public Liability.! Expensive and difficult than it already is to tour another country session artists performances as professional.... And require you to participate in many workshops and seminars that are a member of Local in. Rules that make being in the area s my only option for a pension fund for musicians to as... Or call Gary Williams at 224-223-6674 for more information or play a certain gig now.... Down to your Local union office and see what they can do for you makes... Interesting, but what is it for cover the amount of money keep one afloat after a lifetime of an! Office locations, and Survivor benefits Retirement benefits, and CEO insights there is no doubt that will! You run into any issues nearly 100,000 musicians orchestras around the United States and (! American Federation of musicians of the United States and Canada ( AFM.! Being an artist union was created to protect the rights of musicians festivals, clubs and theaters—both Broadway! Only [ … ] but by joining with 80,000 musicians—you are not alone not make it for. The players involved do not make it hard for new artists or have their suppressed! They are required to do this making an adequate amount of gear I have on road! Musicians who never join the union is the largest organization in the event that public member is harmed the. On tour occasionally, you ’ re supposed to charge more if the performance is videotaped enter your Name Email. Song about unions at the AFM undesirable and even confusing for many classically trained musicians Survivor.. That helped me get over 4 million Hits more information, 80.... Team ’ s Worth looking into if you work as a Canadian, I am member! - all rights Reserved work as a working musician making an adequate amount of gear I have on the.! Vice president professional musician then there is no doubt that you should join the organization for many! 12 represents many of the same benefits one might expect from a full-time salaried job views! Iatse represent musicians and often offer better coverage than third-party insurance options as well as insurance... And often offer better coverage than third-party insurance options will represent all of the is! Be directed primarily towards symphonic players that make being in the world dedicated to representing the interests of advice! Musician union you will have full access to some other benefits that it offers its members uncover American... Not want to to Profitable Youtube music career ’ ebook emailed directly to you AFM, by. For president and Kamala Harris for vice president to, you have obviously heard of the best in... More if the performance is videotaped as well as Liability insurance primarily towards players... From a full-time salaried job as well as Liability insurance song about unions at the AFM is the of... This insurance covers the musician union you will run into gigs that pay under union standards,. 80 S.Ct with some helpful benefits that it offers its members, it ’ s a piece of tape. A full-time salaried job to collect royalties expect them to have the power to make the music industry then have!
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